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Some questions about Structure and Expectations for learning Esperanto

от StevenGza, 27 януари 2014

Съобщения: 21

Език: English

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 12:37:04

There were cases where I had some doubt about the correct answer
Yes, although it was a long time ago that I romped through the C exam, I also seem to remember that feeling. But I put that down to the question not being well set.

A question that allows you to argue with the examiner about whether something is correct, or requires you to choose a single answer where more than one of the options could be correct, is simply not a good exam question.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Let's see if Steven passes or gets near a pass mark in 6 months. I bet he will.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 13:57:26

Steven, although there are a few native speakers of Esperanto their usage isn't decisive, and because Esperanto is in practice a second language for everybody, and still evolving, there will inevitably be more cases of usage which lies at the margin of acceptability and unacceptability, than for a language like English.

Opinions about such usage are not really a reflection of core competence.

StevenGza (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 15:10:18

Oh my! Sorry for such late replies (this PC went in for repairs)

Thanks sudanglo for such enthusiatic backing ridulo.gif; and also thank you to erinja for her healthy skepticism.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Let's see if Steven passes or gets near a pass mark in 6 months. I bet he will.
That will be the goal I shoot for then. If I don't reach it, at least I would have made progress ridulo.gif. I've already done the A exam vocabulary on Memrise and I know most of the prepositions that kasxperanto mentions. I'm more worried about my pronunciation as I haven't yet had any spontaneous conversation(it's difficult to find people in my time zone) - so I'll join the facebook group Rikat mentioned for lots and lots of practice.

Erinja, it might assuage your worries to know that I happen to have an aptitude for vocabulary. I was placed in the top two percent (it was only accurate up to within two percent so the test couldn't differentiate further) for vocabulary,though this was English, on my aptitude test. But I'll do my best to take note of the idiosyncratic foibles I find in Esperanto, which I hope to hunt down while reading ridulo.gif.

Thanks again to everyone for their deliberation and their wisdom.
(I'm particularly glad that Anglicisms aren't as much of a hurdle as I thought, thanks sudanglo for his explanation of that).

erinja (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 16:00:35

Most of the C level exam isn't vocabulary; it is formatted differently than the other exams on the site. It mainly consists of sentences that may or may not contain errors, and you have to find the errors in the sentences and correct them. It isn't an accident that passing the C level exam is a prerequisite for becoming a tutor on this site. Therefore, doubt about the correct answer has nothing to do with a question not being well-set -- the 'questions' in the C exam are just sentences! And not made-up sentences, for that matter; sentences that come from Esperanto literature, from well-known authors. So if you have a good talent for grammar you may well pass the C exam. But if you want to study for the C exam, grammar is the major focus.

Oijos (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 23:07:27

I want to warn you not to draw influences from a Facebook group or from a random Skype-user. The level of Esperanto can be horrible. They use wrong vocab and make many grammar mistakes. Everything printed is usually much safer.

I recommend Paŝoj al Plena Posedo if you already have a basic vocabulary. You can find the PDF free using Google (I don't know if it's there legally or not)

If you live in South Africa, I don't understand your complain of your timezone. It's the same as in Europe.

Oijos (Покажи профила) 28 януари 2014, 23:17:18

6. Is it common or frowned upon that people speak through a filter of Esperanto?(as in, they translate turns of phrase that are say English or Chinese into klunky, unstylish Esperanto)*
You should endeavour to think in Esperanto. Everything that makes sense is proper Esperanto. That's a key reason for its easiness.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 29 януари 2014, 12:29:27

grammar is the major focus.
There is, of course, a substantial problem in making a vocab test in Esperanto a fair measure of language competence.

If the word in Esperanto happens to take on a similar form to one of the same or related meaning in you own language, then that word is very easy.

To take a very simple example. If the question is 'Kiu animalo havas plumojn?' and among the options there is 'birdo'. That question is very much easier for an English speaker than for a German speaker (in German, the word is Vogel) or a French speaker (in French, the word is oiseau).

On the other hand, if the wrong answers are international words like Krokodilo and Tigro, then by a process of elimination the right answer has to be 'birdo', which doesn't prove that you knew the word.

By the way, if you happen to be an English speaker, and you know the English word 'plumage', then the meaning of 'plumo' isn't difficult for you.

Actually English speakers are in a very strong position with regard to mastering the meaning of Esperanto roots, since English has so many borrowings from so many languages. The meanings of probably well over half the roots in an Esperanto dictionary are guessable for an English speaker, or easily recognizable.
I'm particularly glad that Anglicisms aren't as much of a hurdle as I thought, thanks sudanglo for his explanation of that
Not actually sure I said that, Steven. But it depends what you had in mind when you were thinking about 'anglismoj'.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 29 януари 2014, 12:40:43

the 'questions' in the C exam are just sentences! And not made-up sentences, for that matter; sentences that come from Esperanto literature, from well-known authors
Ooh, those naughty well-known authors making so many mistakes!

erinja (Покажи профила) 29 януари 2014, 12:57:36

sudanglo:
the 'questions' in the C exam are just sentences! And not made-up sentences, for that matter; sentences that come from Esperanto literature, from well-known authors
Ooh, those naughty well-known authors making so many mistakes!
The mistakes were added to the sentences; but the sentences that are "correct but rare" (and therefore should be left untouched in the exam) are in their original form, as given by the author.

Bruso (Покажи профила) 29 януари 2014, 15:29:58

erinja:
sudanglo:
the 'questions' in the C exam are just sentences! And not made-up sentences, for that matter; sentences that come from Esperanto literature, from well-known authors
Ooh, those naughty well-known authors making so many mistakes!
The mistakes were added to the sentences; but the sentences that are "correct but rare" (and therefore should be left untouched in the exam) are in their original form, as given by the author.
Are we allowed to know in advance which authors might be most useful to read for the exam?

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