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Few questions

de Kuniklo_Blua, 2014-aŭgusto-17

Mesaĝoj: 31

Lingvo: English

Kuniklo_Blua (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 02:31:10

1.
I was doing the bildoj and demonadoj lessons and am wondering the between difference between
kiom and kiom da
kie and de kie

Also when to use which.

2.
Is it better to use ego over granda
As in grandajn pomojn mi mangxis
or is it better pomegojn mangxis mi.
Also can you always use ego rather than granda.

3.
Can you omit the n?

4.
For titles such as doctors/teachers/friends do you need to add ino when referring to females?

5.
Does the sentence order used matter?

orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 03:11:42

Kuniklo_Blua:1.
I was doing the bildoj and demonadoj lessons and am wondering the between difference between
kiom and kiom da
kie and de kie

Also when to use which.

2.
Is it better to use ego over granda
As in grandajn pomojn mi mangxis
or is it better pomegojn mangxis mi.
Also can you always use ego rather than granda.

3.
Can you omit the n?

4.
For titles such as doctors/teachers/friends do you need to add ino when referring to females?

5.
Does the sentence order used matter?
Kiom is "how much" as a question (or relative pronoun) when followed by nothing. Kiom da is typically followed by a noun that you're asking "how much of it".
Kie simply means "where". De kie is "From where" as in "De kie vi estas?" "Where are you from?" or "De kie venas la francoj?" means "Where do the French come from?"

It is my understanding that -eg doesn't mean simply "large" it's more about degree: granda kukurbo is simply a large pumpkin where as a kukurbego would be one of those ginormous freak pumpkins one sees at county fairs.....but that's just my take on it. I'm sure someone here will pipe up right quick if I'm wrong and condescendingly correct me as if I were a barely communicative infant.

Anyway, by "omit the -n" I'm assuming thee means in sentences like "Grandajn pomojn mi mangxis"? No, one cannot. It indicates the direct object of the verb.

As for such forms as Doktorino, etc. I wouldn't, unless thee is referring to a specifically female doctor. If the gender of the doctor is not important to the meaning of the sentence (or to make sure one has the right doctor), then the "-ino-less" form will do just fine.

And no, sentence order technically doesn't matter: the sentence can be SVO, OVS, VOS, VSO, etc., although SVO is the usual order, in that any other order tends to be seen as emphasizing whatever component is first. In thy sentence "Grandajn pomojn mi mangxis" may be understood as not simply "I ate big apples" but rather "it was big apples that I ate" (meaning thee is emphasizing big apples as opposed to, say, small carrots, that thee ate).

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 03:23:47

orthohawk:
Kiom is "how much" as a question (or relative pronoun) when followed by nothing. Kiom da is typically followed by a noun that you're asking "how much of it".
What Orthohawk says is correct. However, I think you meant "thee is" or "thee's" rather than "you're" in this sentence. I am sure you didn't mean to refer to Kuniklo in the plural.

nornen (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 03:38:28

erinja:
orthohawk:
Kiom is "how much" as a question (or relative pronoun) when followed by nothing. Kiom da is typically followed by a noun that you're asking "how much of it".
What Orthohawk says is correct. However, I think you meant "thee is" or "thee's" rather than "you're" in this sentence. I am sure you didn't mean to refer to Kuniklo in the plural.
+1

orthohawk (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 03:50:11

erinja:
orthohawk:
Kiom is "how much" as a question (or relative pronoun) when followed by nothing. Kiom da is typically followed by a noun that you're asking "how much of it".
What Orthohawk says is correct. However, I think you meant "thee is" or "thee's" rather than "you're" in this sentence. I am sure you didn't mean to refer to Kuniklo in the plural.
"you" as in the "general you" not the "'personal' you" ridulo.gif The "general you" uses the plural for some reason......at least no one I know who uses plain speech ever uses "thee" for the "general you" meaning.

Kuniklo_Blua (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 04:06:09

Thank you for your answers.(dankon pro la respondojn?)

So just to be sure.

Do I only use ino with family words(sister/wife/mother or when trying to specify) and treat other words such as animals/titles/etc as gender neutral?

For da is it the same when saying pli da?
Such as.... Sxi volas pli da pomojn.
(Is there a specific list of words for when to use this?)

Also i was reading el was the word for from. Whats the difference between
el and de and when to use which?

sparksbet (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 04:37:06

Kuniklo_Blua:Thank you for your answers.(dankon pro la respondojn?)

So just to be sure.

Do I only use ino with family words(sister/wife/mother or when trying to specify) and treat other words such as animals/titles/etc as gender neutral?

For da is it the same when saying pli da?
Such as.... Sxi volas pli da pomojn.
(Is there a specific list of words for when to use this?)

Also i was reading el was the word for from. Whats the difference between
el and de and when to use which?
Regarding -ino, that's a fairly common usage. Just be aware that you will likely counter Esperantists who insist that unless you add -in- (or ge- for plurals), you only refer to men. Most people I've encountered don't do that for most words anymore, but be prepared if you do encounter it. The male default does apply to familial words, as you rightly presume, but it may also apply to titles, I believe - as far as I know, "sinjoro" is only male, "sinjorino" is obviously for women, and one almost always uses "gesinjoroj" when referring to both.

You can't use just "pli da" like that, if I'm correct. "Pli" does not mean "more" in all the English senses of the word - it only means more when used instead of -er at the end of an adjective. If you want to say "she wants more apples," you'd said "Sxi volas pli multe da pomoj" or "Sxi volas pli multajn pomojn" (using "multa" as an adjective by itself or "multe" as an adverb with "da" are both common and equally correct. There may be a small difference, but nothing you need to worry about when you're starting). "Multa" is the adjective meaning "many" or "much," and using that with "pli" communicates that she wants a greater amount of apples, as opposed to apples that are "pli rugxaj" or "pli bongustaj"!

"El" means "from" in some cases, but I find a better explanation of its definition is "out of" Locationally, "el" implies movement from within something to outside of it, whereas "de" is more vague (since it also means "of" and sometimes "by" ). If I come "el la urbo," it means I was in the city and left it, but if I come "de la urbo," I could just be a citizen of that city.
In the more abstract uses, like "tri de ili" versus "tri el ili," it gets confusing, but you can usually use them interchangeably when they follow numbers. There's a difference in nuance - "el" gives a more selective sense, as far as I can tell, like these three were picked out of the group specifically, whereas "de" is again more vague. But that's complicated and I'm not sure if I grasp it myself, so that's all I'll say on the subject.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 05:20:53

orthohawk:
erinja:
orthohawk:
Kiom is "how much" as a question (or relative pronoun) when followed by nothing. Kiom da is typically followed by a noun that you're asking "how much of it".
What Orthohawk says is correct. However, I think you meant "thee is" or "thee's" rather than "you're" in this sentence. I am sure you didn't mean to refer to Kuniklo in the plural.
"you" as in the "general you" not the "'personal' you" ridulo.gif The "general you" uses the plural for some reason......at least no one I know who uses plain speech ever uses "thee" for the "general you" meaning.
So in other words, Kuniklo should use "-in-" only in case that Kuniklo is referring to a female doctor, but general Esperantists should do something different?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 05:31:51

Family words are gendered. "Patro" only means father, period, and you have to say "patrino" to mean mother. Other than these family words, words like doctor, friend, etc are neutral, though some people treat them as generically male.

"Mi volas pli da pomoj" is perfectly good Esperanto. No need for "multe". Note that -n isn't used after "da" so it is definitely "da pomoj" and never *da pomojn.

"tri de ili" and "tri el ili" aren't interchangeable. I would never say "tri de ili", I can't even quite imagine when I'd say that.

tri el ili is three out of a group (you have five, let's say, and I am asking for three out of five; el here is referring to how many individuals out of a known group)

tri da ili shows quantity. I want a quantity of three (of whatever is "ili")

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-17 11:51:44

"tri de ili", I can't even quite imagine when I'd say that.
Ĉu vi ricevis respondojn ankaŭ de la Esperantistoj. Jes, tri de ili, sed pleje la respondoj venis de ....

So when the meaning is from (but not out of).

Prenu tri de ili kaj la reston de ...

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