Scii... are you kidding me?
ca, kivuye
Ubutumwa 72
ururimi: English
GabrielWithoutWings (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 06:26:46
What was Zamenhof thinking when he created such a twistingly vile and unpronounceable word?
I've listened to the recording about 15 times, and I still don't get how it's pronounced.
'C' is pronounced like the hard 'ts' in tsunami, yes?
ceigered (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 06:52:16
Scii = stsi:
When in a sentence like "Ne scias" it becomes like "nes tsias" and when like "povas scii" it becomes almost like "povas tsi:".
All that aside though, "scii" is one of the most creatively pronounced words in Esperanto. Some even say "sĉii" (
), some say "cii" (mostly by error) and some say "sii" (by the same error, only on a much larger scale). Some pronounce the ii as "i:" (think "leak"), some pronounce it "i?i" (with a glottal stop in between) like "e-e!", and some like me say it a bit like "iji" or as if there's a Chinese tone randomly shoved in there.So it's a bit like "exists" in English - occaisionally slaughtered and pronounced "ekzisssss", but it should be pronounced "ekzists" with that unusual consonant conglomeration. Just pretend you're speaking some alien language like the one in District 9.
(Previous discussions:
Ĉu Esperanto estas malfacile prononcebla?
reading
Saying "sc" and "ii"
on the upside, because everyone who speaks Eo has probably come across the sc problem before, people will generally be ready to understand a variety of interpretations of the sound.)
What was Zamenhof thinking when he created such a twistingly vile and unpronounceable word?As with many EO words, he probably just went with a latin root and then EO-icised it. The problem is that Zam didn't have the wonders of the internet and unlike modern conlangers couldn't go "mmm, I'll go find out the most common sounds in the world". Another problem is Zamenhoff's desire to keep the the original written form of a word similar to the EO word, e.g. "sci-" obviously comes from the same latin root for "science". However it seems as if the Slavic influence got a shoe in here and instead of "c" retaining it's latin pronunciation of "K" (sciō, /skio:/) it got a slavic/late-vulgar latin influence and became "ts" (I personally would have preferred "skii" to "scii"!)
GabrielWithoutWings (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 07:07:57
ceigered:Hahaha! I remember when I asked a similar (yet somewhat more reserved) question.Meh, I should've done a forum search before making a new topic.
Scii = stsi:
When in a sentence like "Ne scias" it becomes like "nes tsias" and when like "povas scii" it becomes almost like "povas tsi:".
All that aside though, "scii" is one of the most creatively pronounced words in Esperanto. Some even say "sĉii" (
So it's a bit like "exists" in English - occaisionally slaughtered and pronounced "ekzisssss", but it should be pronounced "ekzists" with that unusual consonant conglomeration. Just pretend you're speaking some alien language like the one in District 9.
(Previous discussions:
Ĉu Esperanto estas malfacile prononcebla?
reading
Saying "sc" and "ii"
on the upside, because everyone who speaks Eo has probably come across the sc problem before, people will generally be ready to understand a variety of interpretations of the sound.)
Oh well... my one small topic where my fist is raised defiantly can be noted, too.
I'm going with the D9 direction. It's the easiest.
ceigered (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 07:33:26
GabrielWithoutWings:I'm going with the D9 direction. It's the easiest.Krrtstvxbyhgjklkpshtk! Good to hear and hope you can master the tongue twister of a word!
Rogir (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 11:59:22
About ii, you will just have to pronounce it, it doesn't have to sound nice but it is important for the understanding.
Frankouche (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 12:22:22
I think it's not a problem to be understood. These sounds are a little allophonic.
But of course, i'm in the purgatory for not respecting the fundamento.
horsto (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 12:40:01
Rogir:The thing is though, as far as I know there is no other (at least no often-used) root with sc in it, so not being able to pronounce sc isn't a big disaster. I am generally against any reform whatsoever, but I wouldn't have a big problem with scii being replaced by cii or stii.Really?
sceno, sceptro, scienco, scientologio, scintili, sciuro, sciuroptero
In the beginning it was also difficult for me to pronounce these words, but now it's easier. The trick is to begin with the s, and then, after some time, pronounce the rest, f.e. s-ci-en-co
Rogir (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 13:44:51
gyrus (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 13:49:26
darkweasel (Kwerekana umwidondoro) 22 Kigarama 2009 14:13:15