Genjix:Not being a grammar nazi, but you evidently worked hard on that post. Foreigners appreciate corrections usually. I like exercising my writing.

qwertz:Due to lots of happenend Because of e-o meetings in that citythere, the Ccity Ccouncil of Herzberg am Harz authorized the application ofby the local ICH e-o folks to add adding an official "Namenszusatz" (city name addendum) to "Herzberg am Harz" = "Herzberg – la Esperanto-urbo". So, spreadingpromoting E-o in Herzberg is officially welcomed by the local City Ccouncil. That means i.e., e.g E-o lessons at public schools etc. But pProbably someone you will not find a lot ofmuch e-o repesentation inside everyday in everyday Herzberg city life. However, there is seems to be that E-o city name addendum at the train station. Until now I haven't been here,; I just receive the regualar email newsletters.

Btw., the next JES will happen at anbe/happen in a sorbian town.

And completed:

qwertz:Because of e-o meetings there, the city council authorized application by the local ICH e-o folks to add an official "Namenszusatz" (city name addendum) to "Herzberg am Harz" = "Herzberg – la Esperanto-urbo". So promoting E-o in Herzberg is officially welcomed by the local council, e.g. E-o lessons at public schools. Probably you will not find much e-o in everyday Herzberg city life. However, there is that E-o city name addendum at the train station. I haven't been here; I just receive the regular email newsletters.

Btw, the next JES will be in a sorbian town.

Ooops. My English is such bad? Thanks for your corrections. I definitly have to work on my English language skills, too.

Just encase your interested:
Under international law a country doesn’t require the recognition of other countries to be considered a legitimate state. For example:

Taiwan is not recognised as an independent country by mainland China.
Somaliland exists and runs independently as a state yet it has no official recognition from other countries.
Even Israel is lacking recognition by some of its neighbours.

Evildela:Just encase your interested:
Under international law a country doesn’t require the recognition of other countries to be considered a legitimate state. For example:

Taiwan is not recognised as an independent country by mainland China.
Somaliland exists and runs independently as a state yet it has no official recognition from other countries.
Even Israel is lacking recognition by some of its neighbours.

Thank you! I was just about going to point that out~

The length of the list of these examples can vary by different criteria. You can either choose to count in our exclude Tibet, Taliban, Kosovo, South Ossetia, to name just a few.

Here is a list of so many other serious communities calling for recognition.On the bottom are those who succeeded. And so, I think that's one of the reasons behind the Article 15 in the UDHR, that

[e]veryone has the right to a nationality

LyzTyphone:

Evildela:Just encase your interested:
Under international law a country doesn’t require the recognition of other countries to be considered a legitimate state. For example:

Taiwan is not recognised as an independent country by mainland China.
Somaliland exists and runs independently as a state yet it has no official recognition from other countries.
Even Israel is lacking recognition by some of its neighbours.

Thank you! I was just about going to point that out~

Ay, this is a messy situation though involving the "twin China policy", that being that everyone official who deals with the PRC tends to never call Taiwan a country, but still trades and does stuff with Taiwan all in the name of "business". Anyway, there's no way in heck we can compare HRP to Taiwan, since Taiwan has international recognition of being some form of state, e.g. more than just a couple of countries, and in the mind of their citizens regard Taiwan as being a country (even if covertly, that said the PRC probably know the day they try to take back Taiwan by force, the day they spell a very bloody end to prosperity in the region, therefore the PRC will probably never "get" Taiwan and the only hope of reunification would have to be peaceful and wanted by all parties).

Similar situation with Israel - we all regard Israel as a nation, spare a couple of its neighbours and their buddies, and it's probably gonna stay that way because even if said upset neighbours tried anything by force, it's gonna be the equivalent of dropping a nuke or something painful on yourself.

HRP, on the other hand, has no international recognition, apart from other micronations, who also have no international recognition.

Furthermore, international law, no matter how good it can be in terms of human rights, can't really supplant regional and national laws. By international law, can't I theoretically create my own country on my block of land, which I technically don't even own, and then refuse to pay rent/utilities/taxes? I'm just segregating myself for the sake of it then, and it's not really gonna grant me any more freedom than I had before.

Ceigered, How do you think countries begin? They don't just poof into existence... usually.

Now Hutt River has a physical population of 30-40 but a lot of Aussies back them as a group, because of amount c:::: they went through from WA government. Now they also have 13,000 supporters world wide (citizenship), and a small army which exists in America. So really, if they don't pay tax, and have been left alone to do what they want for 40 years - then really they are an independent state in there own right. Now funny thing is - every other micro nation in Australia that has ever tried to claim land has either fallen apart or been shutdown by government on fraud basis. Why does the Hutt remain?

Evildela:Ceigered, How do you think countries begin? They don't just poof into existence... usually.

Now Hutt River has a physical population of 30-40 but a lot of Aussies back them as a group, because of amount c:::: they went through from WA government. Now they also have 13,000 supporters world wide (citizenship), and a small army which exists in America. So really, if they don't pay tax, and have been left alone to do what they want for 40 years - then really they are an independent state in there own right. Now funny thing is - every other micro nation in Australia that has ever tried to claim land has either fallen apart or been shutdown by government on fraud basis. Why does the Hutt remain?

I know they don't just begin, they normally are started by sizeable groups of people who end up regarding each other as a force to be reckoned with in some way or another, and categorise each other until you end up with a unified system of classifying the different peoples (e.g. "this is the tribe of the blagiblagi, this is the kingdom of Grargh, these are a people under our control called the jongleflop, etc") - eventually, you end up with todays current system, which I believe is predominately European based.

But I'd like to see how many Aussies would really support them vs. the rest of the country's population, since while many support secession, I doubt the bulk of the population does since that's just segregation (and everyone in real life I've mentioned HRP to don't even know what it is, or do and have a chuckle). I'd much rather see the central government get its hand out of its bum and be fairer on the more regional states than see the country divided. Furthermore, they're a nation in the same way that Esperanto is the official 2nd language of the world, which is not really. There are probably a bajillion reasons why Hutt remain but I doubt it's because they're considered a real country by those in power, thus, I don't think we should go calling them an official country. If, in 500 years time, the government then has a completely different view point and calls Hutt river province a country, then that's when things change. But it's certainly not happening now, so I don't think using a categorisation system developed by those with the power to get away with classifying and dividing the world into nations to classify HRP as a nation is really warranted.

I must admit I'm being fairly heavy handed, and while I don't have a problem supporting the underdog, I do however believe that this underdog may have been self-created, and not actually have to be an underdog. If HRP is to be a state though, we can't call it one now/yet, just like how we can't say that Esperanto has "finvenkis". It requires the hindsight of history for us to put a precise point on the timeline and go "this is where HRP's nationhood began", since in 5 minutes, who knows, a freak flood/sandstorm/asteroid/invasion by rabid dingos could occur in HRP and it might not ever reappear in history. SImilarly, in specification, where species split apart from each other, we can't just go "ok, I'm white, that guy's black, we both think there's something different between us, so we're different species" or "I'm a guy, she's a girl" or whatever, there needs to be hindsight for us to say that. 30 years with 30 people on Australian land doesn't cut it for me.

There're can be found some videos at video.google.de with "Hutt River" or "Principality Hutt River" keywords.

Hutt River: A day with the Prince

Raw movie: Hutt River Province look around at the HRP property.

I think we've rather gotten away from the topic of this thread. Perhaps those who would like to continue to talk about the HRP's status or non-status as an independent state would like to take this conversation to another forum (perhaps you could discuss it in Esperanto in one of the Esperanto forums), or to private messages.