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pronominal use of possessive adjectives without "la"?

od uživatele juliaH ze dne 26. dubna 2012

Příspěvky: 12

Jazyk: English

juliaH (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 7:05:33

Hi Everyone!

Somewhere I read that there is a semantic difference between using the possessive adjectives predicatively with and without the preceding article, as in: "La libro estas la mia" and "La libro estas mia", but that both were grammatically correct. The construction with the article would single out a certain specific book that is mine, and without the article one that is still a specific one, but just one among many or one that is not so important or special. Is this correct? And if it is, where can I find some material on the topic? (NB. I am not referring to the difference between using the possessive adjective to modify some noun, as in "Mi ŝatas mian novan libron", and using it predicatively, as in "La nova libro estas la mia".

Best,
Julia

Bruso (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 12:11:50

juliaH:
Somewhere I read that there is a semantic difference between using the possessive adjectives predicatively with and without the preceding article, as in: "La libro estas la mia" and "La libro estas mia", but that both were grammatically correct.
This rings a bell with me, too. I thought it was Jordan's "Being Colloquial" but I looked there and found nothing. I did find an old Helen Fryer book that says there's no difference.

Anyone?

Mustelvulpo (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 13:40:02

I don't perceive much difference. Perhaps I might say "La libro estas la mia" if the book in question was among books belonging to others and "La libro estas mia" if it was not. But that's really splitting hairs and there's little difference in meaning between the two sentences. Kind of like the difference between picking up a book and saying "This is my book" or "This book is mine."

RiotNrrd (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 20:08:16

I tend to interpret "mia" as meaning "my", and "la mia" as meaning "mine". Which is why "La libro estas mia" (i.e., "The book is my" ) just sounds wrong to my ears.

I'm not saying it IS wrong - it might be perfectly fine (and I don't have time right now to go hunt down the truth of the matter). But it is definitely a construction I personally wouldn't use.

Hyperboreus (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 20:10:15

Forigite

tommjames (Ukázat profil) 26. dubna 2012 23:42:53

juliaH:Is this correct? And if it is, where can I find some material on the topic?
Yes it is correct, there is a small difference, which the following examples from this section in PMEG should make clear:

PMEG:Tiu ĉi libro estas mia. Ĝi estas unu el miaj libroj — nedifina senco.

Tiu ĉi libro estas la mia. Ĝi estas tiu konata libro, kiu apartenas al mi — difina senco.

juliaH (Ukázat profil) 27. dubna 2012 4:37:23

tommjames:
juliaH:Is this correct? And if it is, where can I find some material on the topic?
Yes it is correct, there is a small difference, which the following examples from this section in PMEG should make clear:

PMEG:Tiu ĉi libro estas mia. Ĝi estas unu el miaj libroj — nedifina senco.

Tiu ĉi libro estas la mia. Ĝi estas tiu konata libro, kiu apartenas al mi — difina senco.
Thank you so much everyone! That would probably settle the matter, and I think that paragraph was actually where I saw it originally.

beroal (Ukázat profil) 14. června 2017 12:06:38

I had the same question after reading the chapter "9.3 Pronominal use of possessive adjectives" from Kellerman's book.
45. Possessive adjectives may be used predicatively, as “the book is mine,” or may modify some word or words not expressed, as “mine are large.” Instead of having special forms, like English mine, yours, hers, etc., Esperanto uses the regular possessive adjectives preceded by the article:

La granda libro estas la mia. The large book is mine.

La via estas granda, la miaj estas belaj. Yours is large, mine are beautiful.
If "mia" and "granda" are adjectives, why aren't we allowed to use them in the same form? It seems like an irregularity.

nana123 (Ukázat profil) 20. června 2017 3:33:39

Thanks for the good information.








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raffadalbo (Ukázat profil) 20. června 2017 11:56:49

PMEG:Tiu ĉi libro estas mia. Ĝi estas unu el miaj libroj — nedifina senco.
Tiu ĉi libro estas la mia. Ĝi estas tiu konata libro, kiu apartenas al mi — difina senco.
beroal:If "mia" and "granda" are adjectives, why aren't we allowed to use them in the same form? It seems like an irregularity.
Consider another adjective, for example taŭga (fit):
Tiu ŝuo estas taŭga por vi - This shoe is fit for you (but many other shoes are as well).
Tiu ŝuo estas la taŭga por vi - This shoe is the one that is fit for you (all other shoes around are not)

Maybe a small irregularity is that in Esperanto we do not put "la" in front of "mia" in sentences like mia ŝuo.
But this is reasonable, because in this case "mia" (or "tiu", "ĉiu" ktp) replaces the article - but no article is to be replaced when "mia" is alone after "estas".

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