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The accusative: getting phazed out?!?

от Christa627, 29 юли 2014

Съобщения: 109

Език: English

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 02 август 2014, 10:35:54

Well, you shouldn't kabei, you should just crocodile all the time!
Some Esperantists have enthusiastically followed your brother's advice.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 02 август 2014, 11:02:20

I don't know why Esperantists so often point to the existence of denaskuloj (native speakers of Esperanto). It really is irrelevant. As also is whether you classify Esperanto as a natural or artificial language

Imagine that young children couldn't learn Esperanto. This is in no way would affect the demonstrable fact that Esperanto is (relatively) easy for adults to acquire.

In any case, these denaskuloj are unusual native speakers. Unlike the native speakers of national languages, they do not have multiple sources for the acquisition of the language - eg TV, radio, films, comics, signs and adverts, school friends and text books, people in their street, etc.

The competence of these denaskuloj in Esperanto will be in the first instance limited by the command of the language possessed by the parents, and there is a reasonable suspicion that the parents' enthusiasm might outweigh their spertuleco.

The speech of denaskuloj may have some academic interest for linguists, but would seem to have no implications outside that.

se (Покажи профила) 02 август 2014, 11:41:26

If there is an accuse of the native speaker of esperanto drop the N, please come to ASEAN to listen to the native speakers of English, whose parents are not even passing the GCE O level English,but thinking that if they speak English as native language, they would have a head start.

The /th/ sound, /s/ and /z/ of course the /r/ too are horrible out, especially in Malaysia where there are 2/3 teachers of English are not reaching the target, which is, passing the O level.

Esperanto is the second language of each home but not as the native speaker. It is the wrong concept of the esperantujo.

Bilingual children are smarter even former prime minister, LEE Kuan-Yew mentioned in his memoir. Read the Australia Mondeto report.

Kirilo81 (Покажи профила) 02 август 2014, 12:46:28

sudanglo:The speech of denaskuloj may have some academic interest for linguists, but would seem to have no implications outside that.
+1 - especially for the linguistic norms they are not important.

BTW, I think Ken Miner is right in making a difference between a native speaker and an indigenous speaker (monolingual, with monolingual parents), the latter doesn't (and shouldn't) exist in Esperantujo.

bartlett22183 (Покажи профила) 02 август 2014, 16:02:18

However, if Esperanto (or any other constructed auxiliary language) were to become truly widespread, worldwide, in generations to come, I presume that many (most?) children would begin to learn it in childhood, perhaps (especially) in schools, so that eventually there would be many native (i.e., denaskaj) speakers. They just would not be indigenous, as you indicate.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 03 август 2014, 11:28:52

But in the event of the fina venko they would be taught the language, and probably not until they were in secondary school (after age 11). This would not make them denaskuloj.

bartlett22183 (Покажи профила) 03 август 2014, 18:40:13

Why age 11? That seems a bit arbitrary to me. Although they are rare, there are a few schools here in the USA where children are in immersion classes from the beginning, i.e., about age 6. In the event of the Fina Venko, I see no reason why children would not start picking up the language at an early age.

AllenHartwell (Покажи профила) 04 август 2014, 10:09:37

NO. They are lying. The accusative is NOT being "phased" out. The language is not changing. It cannot change by its very nature. The Fundamento clearly states that the accusative exists and so it exists and always will exist in Esperanto. The failure of individuals to learn and speak proper Esperanto does not change this.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 04 август 2014, 10:56:52

Although they are rare, there are a few schools here in the USA where children are in immersion classes from the beginning, i.e., about age 6
Immersion classes in Esperanto?

The obvious difference between learning a foreign national language at a young age and starting learning Esperanto early, is that it makes sense in the case of a foreign national language. It gives you a head start and takes advantage of the flexibility of the young mind, particularly in the matter of acquiring a good accent.

There seems to be no comparable advantage in learning Esperanto from a tender age. Arguably, it is an advantage if Esperanto studies are first undertaken when the young person attains the age of reason and can think more logically.

The best Esperantists seem to be those who took up Esperanto in the age range 16 to 25.

Alkanadi (Покажи профила) 04 август 2014, 15:09:10

sudanglo:
Although they are rare, there are a few schools here in the USA where children are in immersion classes from the beginning, i.e., about age 6
Immersion classes in Esperanto?
....
The best Esperantists seem to be those who took up Esperanto in the age range 16 to 25.
You have to be careful. I was in French immersion from grades 1 to 3. As a result, I hate French because it was very stressful trying to speak in a language that I don't speak. We would always get punished for using English. It wasn't fun.

On the plus side, I know a minuscule amount of French, which is an undeniable benefit. However, after all those years, I still can't understand French TV or even make a sentence in French. But, I know some vocab.

Be careful about forcing kids into these programs. They might end up hating Esperanto and wanted to barf everytime they see it for the rest of their life.

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