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Vowel differences and technicalities

ceigered :lta, 2. joulukuuta 2008

Viestejä: 26

Kieli: English

ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 6. joulukuuta 2008 6.19.52

For Australians I'd say the 'uy' in muy sounds more like 'oy', but then again for NSW, the only mexico is victoria ha ha ha... But I guess if one was to pronounce it as 'tioj' then they'd be confusing the listener with another word.

mnlg (Näytä profiilli) 6. joulukuuta 2008 11.40.01

erinja:That'd be the French "Louis" presumably, not the English pronunciation that can also be written Lewis.
Yes. I also had thought of muy. I should have used that, even though it seemed inappropriate in the English forum; even though basic Spanish words can be familiar to a sub-set of the north-american English-speaking population, the extraction of the forum members seems more varied than that.

However I just found out (to my minor surprise) that there is no example of [uj] in English, so my apologies for my bad example.

Frankouche (Näytä profiilli) 6. joulukuuta 2008 13.24.36

When you say "New york", isn't it nujork ?

erinja (Näytä profiilli) 6. joulukuuta 2008 14.50.05

The way the syllables are split, New York doesn't work well as an example. It's nu-jork, not nuj-ork.

BTW ceigered, "tioj" doesn't exist as a word, for grammatical reasons. But you still wouldn't want "tiuj" to sound like "tioj" anyway, if you could help it. It would sound like either poor pronunciation or bad grammar.

I know that Australian English has significantly different vowel sounds from American; I feel like the sounds you guys use mean that you probably have an [uj] phoneme somewhere, because Australians tend to drop syllables and smush stuff together more than Americans. But I am not familiar enough with the accent to come up with a suitable example word. How would you pronounce the word "bluey"? It seems to me that perhaps it would be similar to "bluj" in Esperanto (a non-existant word, but possibly a useful pronunciation tool)

Frankouche (Näytä profiilli) 6. joulukuuta 2008 15.42.04

erinja:It's nu-jork, not nuj-ork.
Of course (even if in french we sometimes badly say nuj-jork), but if you don't say ork you have the sound, nu-j'. Doesn't it work?

ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 7. joulukuuta 2008 6.15.40

erinja:How would you pronounce the word "bluey"? It seems to me that perhaps it would be similar to "bluj" in Esperanto (a non-existant word, but possibly a useful pronunciation tool)
Unfortunately you were spot on with Aussies having different pronunciation - we don't pronounce the 'u' like (e.g. in America), and while we can easily ditch the 'y' (e.g. new = njuridulo.gif that comes before the 'u', even then our 'u' is further forward in the mouth identical to the long 'u' in Swedish (ʉ is the IPA character for it), so for u+j sometimes sounds like a long 'u', and bluey sounds like 'Bloowee'. But, I can still do a U.S. 'u' (infact, for a bit I made the mistake of doing that in Swedish, until I realised it was the same as the Aussie u), but I still have that short 'ee' sound come off of the 'j' in 'tiuj' if I speak slowly (which is the easiest way to get the 'uj' sound, otherwise it gets changed to an 'oj').

Nonetheless, I've been listening to more spoken Esperanto so I think that's the best way to learn it.

If it helps you guys, heres what an Aussie 'u' *generally* sounds like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_central_rounded...
An example for those who speak Swedish would be the 'u' in 'ful', except our pitch is completely different ridego.gif

Filanator (Näytä profiilli) 7. joulukuuta 2008 6.16.28

erinja:I know that Australian English has significantly different vowel sounds from American; I feel like the sounds you guys use mean that you probably have an [uj] phoneme somewhere, because Australians tend to drop syllables and smush stuff together more than Americans. But I am not familiar enough with the accent to come up with a suitable example word. How would you pronounce the word "bluey"? It seems to me that perhaps it would be similar to "bluj" in Esperanto (a non-existant word, but possibly a useful pronunciation tool)
Bluey would be more like blui, with two syllables. I'm pretty sure that the uj sound doesn't exist in Australian English, I remember that when I started to learn Esperanto the uj sound made it sound quite foreign.

RiotNrrd (Näytä profiilli) 7. joulukuuta 2008 6.38.34

My mouth is utterly incapable of making the "uj" sound following an "i". I've tried (for a couple of years) unsuccessfully, and am now resigned to pronouncing it oo-ee. Although I try to shorten the ee. Note that I still consider it to be a single sound, for the sake of placing the accented syllable - "tiuj" is still TEE-oo-ee.

However, I listen regularly to Radio Verda, and I would say that both Arono and Karlina have excellent pronunciation (Arono may be a bit better than Karlina, or, perhaps, just more melodious - but both of them are still pretty darn fluent). Yet I have heard both of them pronounce "uj" as oo-ee; just as I must. So I don't feel too bad about my minor handicap. If I could speak only as well as Arono, I could live with that.

Frankouche (Näytä profiilli) 7. joulukuuta 2008 10.27.24

Tea? U(h)! J(es)! okulumo.gif

ceigered (Näytä profiilli) 7. joulukuuta 2008 10.34.25

On a sidetracked note, is it ok to put a schwa in between the 't' and 'r' in words like Patro, Patrino, tre, tro, trinken, because every-time I pronounce those words I feel as if I'm over-aspirating the 't' into the 'r' and turning the 'r' from an alveolar trill into an approximate (somewhere between the english approximate and the russian/polish trill).

Maybe it's just me... I dunno, there's always the chance that it could be a residue sound that only I can hear as a result of it being too dull or quiet to be heard outside my skull... Just wait while I record my own voice lango.gif

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