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What do you think is the idea behind "cool"?

от qwertz, 10 августа 2010 г.

Сообщений: 33

Язык: English

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 18 августа 2010 г., 20:10:30

sudanglo:Seems to me surprising that 'kuul' (pronounce both 'u's) wasn't adopted under rule 15 of the famous 16 rules.
This form is based neither on any international written form (→ *coola) nor on any pronounciation (→ *kula - this already has another meaning).

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 10:46:27

And 'pronounciation' (sic) deviates from English. But how come you think 'kuul' does not reflect the English and French pronunciation of the interjection?

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 11:06:28

sudanglo:And 'pronounciation' (sic) deviates from English. But how come you think 'kuul' does not reflect the English and French pronunciation of the interjection?
Do you really pronounce two separate "u"s in English? In German we don't.

Evildela (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 11:16:13

I'm a native english speaker and we pronouce cool as 'kool'

tommjames (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 11:27:02

In Esperanto every letter is pronounced separately. Thus kuul sounds like "coo-ool", and kool sounds like "ko-ol". As darkweasel indicates, neither of these match the English sound of "cool".

More info here: http://bertilow.com/pmeg/skribo_elparolo/elparol...

horsto (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 11:28:04

Evildela:I'm a native english speaker and we pronouce cool as 'kool'
Perhaps you are not talking about the same pronounciation, darkweasel is talking about the Esperanto pronounciation and that means:
kool = ko - ol (double o, not a long o)
or
kuul = ku - ul (double u, not a long u)

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 11:37:18

horsto:
Evildela:I'm a native english speaker and we pronouce cool as 'kool'
Perhaps you are not talking about the same pronounciation, darkweasel is talking about the Esperanto pronounciation and that means:
kool = ko - ol (double o, not a long o)
or
kuul = ku - ul (double u, not a long u)
I have the same feeling that something is terribly wrong about the communication of sounds in this thread. Anyway: any sound description that I provide on this forum should be read as Esperanto sounds, not English (or German or French or ...) sounds (this also has the advantage of being less ambiguous) unless otherwise stated.

Maybe Esperanto could have borrowed English "cool" as *koola (as a mix of the written and spoken form). But does this really matter? After all, the neologism mojosa is already invented, and there's even an older word malaĉa made only from official roots.

ceigered (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 12:07:38

Evildela, being an Australian like myself, I suspect you pronounce ul sounds like "awl" instead, yeah? (well, that might be a South Australian thing, we love our dark L's). In which case, in EO orthography, it would actually be something like "kool" or "kuŭ" if it were the Australian "cool" (or maybe more like "kuol", if the sound is even transcribable into EO), for the sake of those not native in English or not familiar with AU phonetics.

[Note though that I'm using double-vowels with EO style phonetics simply to indicate "long" vowels, which I believe is one option in EO pronunciation where double vowels are concerned (the others being glides and glottal stops?)).

(In IPA, AUEng "cool" = kʊw/kʊɫ/kʊl ~ kow/koɫ/kol but also some say kʉːɫ (in the same way that some might say "brʉ" instead of "brəʉ" for "bro"). But unless used as a joke, "kula" is unusable ('tiu homo estas "cool"-a' could be used as a pun sarcastically no doubt rido.gif), and "kola" doesn't work very well at all (necks, or Coca Cola, and then cool? shoko.gif). Not to mention "kuŭa" wouldn't work except with some heavy scottish dialects I assume?).

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 19 августа 2010 г., 12:43:46

ceigered, there is no Esperanto word with the sound sequence "uŭ" and we shouldn't introduce any.

*Koola would be pronounced as it is written - with two separate O sounds. So in order to pronounce it correctly, you actually have to use a glottal stop. There are no long or short vowels in Esperanto.

qwertz (Показать профиль) 5 сентября 2010 г., 15:24:23

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