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ci vs vi

viết bởi adrianlfc9, Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

Tin nhắn: 158

Nội dung: English

adrianlfc9 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:12:46 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

how common is it to use 'ci' as thou instead of 'vi' as thou, one thing i find annoying in english is the fact that 'thou' and 'you' have merged into 'you'. (hence my using of the pronoun 'yall'

but is it socially acceptable to use 'ci' for the singular second person?

Roberto12 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:30:25 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

A few people use it, most don't, and I for one find it intrusive.

adrianlfc9 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:46:51 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

but dont most other languages have it? i know my second and third languages have it, infact my second has 4 versions of the word 'you' tu, usted, vosotros, and ustedes

erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:17:24 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

Almost no one uses "ci". I personally find it presumptuous and slightly offensive when someone insists on using it with me. I received an e-mail once from someone trying to open up a correspondence with me, who insisted on using 'ci' (and who said as much). I didn't bother responding. I agree that it comes off as intrusive, because it simply isn't done.

It doesn't really matter that other languages have this form. Lots of languages have things Esperanto doesn't have, and vice versa.

darkweasel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 19:56:43 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

Personally, when someone addresses me as ci, I don't know what they want to express. There are at least three possibilities:
  • They are trying to speak in a disrespectful way and to offend me.
  • They are trying to express some kind of informality and friendship.
  • They always use ci for singular.
You probably don't want somebody to interpret it according to the first option - and when you do, there are more effective and less ambiguous ways to express that. ridulo.gif

So basically, don't use it, it just isn't common and certainly doesn't convey the same nuances conveyed by equivalent pronouns in other languages.

adrianlfc9 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:28:24 Ngày 22 tháng 2 năm 2013

point taken, vi it shall be

RiotNrrd (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 00:31:40 Ngày 23 tháng 2 năm 2013

adrianlfc9:point taken, vi it shall be
You have made the right choice. ridulo.gif

fstphane (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:24:59 Ngày 23 tháng 2 năm 2013

Djino (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 02:15:29 Ngày 23 tháng 2 năm 2013

I think it's a pity that "ci" has this pejorative connotation, but this opinion doesn't surprise me from english speakers, since you also use "thou" this way.
Mine is that the possibility to distinguish the second-person pronouns, singular and plural, is a good thing (especially for an international auxiliary language). As I see it, we should use "vi" just for deference (like in many languages).
Being informal doesn't sound insolent to me, but friendly. How does "intimate" sounds to you? Is it bad?

Breto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:14:03 Ngày 23 tháng 2 năm 2013

I had no idea "ci" was used to be offensive. Good to know, I guess...it'd be a shame to be accidentally offensive, or to fail to recognize being intentionally insulted, for that matter.

Kind of a shame, though. Even if it were not standard usage in day-to-day speech, it seems like it would be nice to have for literary translations from languages with a T-V distinction. It'd be nice to have distinct singular and plural forms, too. Even English dialects abound with workarounds like "y'all", "youse", "you guys", etc. How are these things usually handled in translations?

(As an afterthought: This is also the first I've heard of "thou" being used pejoratively. As far as I know, thou isn't used in most dialects at all, unless a person is being intentionally archaic, or needs the extra pronouns to adequately explain the grammar of a foreign language. Of course, I might just be misled by my native dialect, I suppose.)

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